Tuesday, February 28, 2023

Bahrain Claims Dual Gold; Late Sprint Backfires for UAE

HorseSport.com - Full Article

Butheeb successfully organized the delayed 2022 World Endurance Championships, but a 36% completion rate shows the sport still has work to do.

By: Horse Sport staff | February 27, 2023

HH Sheikh Nasser Bin Hamad Al Khalifa of Bahrain has finally become the world endurance champion, also claiming team gold at Butheeb, Abu Dhabi, on Saturday. Sh Nasser has aimed for a senior title since 2004, starting in 19 championships and completing 14 of them. This time he finally did it, with 10-year-old Darco La Majorie, also recent winner of a 160-km race in Sakhir.

Nasser was not first over the line after a racing finish at speeds touching 30kph at times with the three Emiratis who had flanked him over the six loops. As so often in endurance the winner was not immediately confirmed as the tense final vetting stage ran its course. It was close call for Nasser; he left it near to the maximum final presentation time, but Darco La Majorie was able to return to a heart rate of 63 beats per minute (the maximum permitted was 64) and an average overall speed of 21 kph.

The final spurt was too much for prospective winner Abdullah al Marri and second over the line Ahmad al Harbi. Their horses vetted out with heart rates of 70-plus. This pushed the host side out of the team medals; the UAE’s two other two riders had been vetted out earlier in the competition. However, the UAE’s defending world champions Salem Hamad Saeed Malhoof Al Kitbi and Haleh claimed individual team silver...

Read more here:
https://horsesport.com/horse-news/bahrain-claims-dual-gold-late-sprint-backfires-uae/

Monday, February 27, 2023

USA's Cheryl Van Deusen and JG General finish World Endurance Championship

February 26 2022

Congratulations to Cheryl Van Deusen and JG General on a courageous performance in completing the FEI Endurance World Championships Butheeb 2022, where the pairing placed 40th amongst a huge international field. JG General was one of just two North American horses to complete the challenging 160km Abu Dhabi desert course.

Photo by US Equestrian, Ahmad Wagdy

More from the event at http://www.endurance.net/international/UAE/2022WorldEnduranceChampionship/

Revised Press Information from Clean Endurance

27 February 2023

The press information as released yesterday regarding the Butheeb 2022 FEI World Endurance Championships has been revised in view of belated information that a horse died soon after the event.

Clean Endurance is saddened that after it queried the FEI it received confirmation of the death of SORAYA PEU 106FR51, an eleven year old mare from Spain.

SORAYA died in the early hours of February 26th, the night following the event, while being transferred from the Butheeb venue to the Dubai equine hospital.

Clean Endurance has asked the FEI if the official results which show the horse in 6th position will be amended to Catastrophic Injury, and whether the rider and trainer will receive the associated penalty points.

The FEI was not able to respond at the time of writing, although they did confirm that blood samples were taken and a post mortem will take place.

Previous relese is here:
http://news.endurance.net/2023/02/clean-endurance-hopes-butheeb-success.html

Sunday, February 26, 2023

Clean Endurance hopes Butheeb success will begin to restore sport’s tactical riding tradition

PRESS INFORMATION FROM CLEAN ENDURANCE

26 February 2023

Clean Endurance is relieved that the 2022 FEI World Endurance Championships (WEC) in Butheeb, Abu Dhabi on February 25th did not result in as many welfare issues as feared. The 160 km long course was ridden at lower average loop speeds (around 21 kmph for the leaders) than recent major events at the same venue.

Clean Endurance is hopeful that the success of the Butheeb 2022 WEC will impact on the manner in which other Endurance competitions, in this region and elsewhere, will be conducted: the results of this event illustrate that it is possible to stage a compelling and tactical event, even on prepared desert tracks, without the hell-for-leather racing which is so damaging to horses and provides no strategic interest.

Prior to the WEC event the FEI warned athletes they must pace themselves carefully and it looks like this warning was heeded by the majority of participants. According to the FEI results there were no Serious or Catastrophic Injuries.

44 out of the 122 horses on the start list successfully completed the 160 km course: the monetary completion awards offered by the Butheeb Organising Committee did unfortunately not appear to be a major incentive for improving the success rate.

Clean Endurance believes the high percentage of Metabolic eliminations (27 horses, a third of all eliminations) remains a source of concern: although it evidences the particular care taken by the officials while examining the horses, it also suggests many horses were overridden. Metabolic eliminations should be largely avoidable with careful management and the results of the 2022 FEI World Endurance Championships indicate there is still progress to be made in that domain.

The disparity between the first combinations across the finish line and the rest of the field illustrates the ‘racing’ versus ‘to finish is to win’ mentality which continues to divide Endurance. More than 2 hours separate the 1st combination across the finish line from the 11th, and the last combination to successfully complete the course arrived 4,5 hours after the winner. Clean Endurance applauds those athletes who ride according to the conditions of the day while making horsemanship and horse welfare a priority.

Clean Endurance also commends the ride strategy of those nations which opt for a concerted team effort rather than aiming for individual medals at the potential cost of injuring their horses and shortening their careers due to high speeds. France and Portugal were rewarded for their team strategies with silver and bronze team medals respectively, whereas the UAE lost their gold individual and team medals when their horses failed to recover enough to pass the final veterinary inspection after sprinting on the last loop at over 27 KMPH.

Clean Endurance sincerely hopes this successful event is a concrete step out of troubled waters for UAE endurance, which still has a lot to do to redeem its sullied reputation. Of particular concern are the number of doping violations as illustrated by the sanctions on record for some of the UAE team members, as well as the extreme speeds regularly seen at the Al Wathba and Dubai venues. There also remain issues with the transparency of reported local competition results and the complete lack of FEI oversight on ‘national’ rides, notably at Al Wathba which opted out of FEI competitions following the major Endurance rules overhaul three years ago.

Clean Endurance is a global collective which aims to restore the traditional values of their sport. It combats fraud, doping and abuse in collaboration with the FEI, National Federations and numerous other stakeholders.

Clean Endurance is happy to supply links for further reading, including coverage in bona fide news media.

Clean Endurance also welcomes comments and suggestions.

Find them on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/cleanendurance and contact them through the message button, or email contact.cleanendurance@gmail.com.

Saturday, February 25, 2023

World Champion!: Shaikh Nasser claims title at Abu Dhabi endurance race

GDNOnline.com - Full Article

26 February 2023

HIS Majesty King Hamad’s representative for humanitarian works and Royal Endurance Team captain Shaikh Nasser bin Hamad Al Khalifa accomplished a major international achievement by winning the World Endurance Championship held yesterday at the Boudheib International Endurance Village, UAE, over a distance of 160km.

The event featured 126 riders, both men and women, representing 36 countries around the world.

Shaikh Nasser won the race in a time of 7 hours, 36 minutes and 39 seconds, ahead of UAE rider Salem Al Ketbi and Spain’s Ponte Jauimi.

Royal Endurance teammate Jaffar Mirza came fourth in 7:59:38.

This was the Bahraini star’s first win in the world championship, thus writing a new chapter in his glittering endurance career. The victory came just a few months after Shaikh Nasser’s victory in the FEI World Endurance Championship for eight-year-old horses in Spain...

Read more here:
https://www.gdnonline.com/Details/1195418/WORLD-CHAMPION-Shaikh-Nasser-claims-title-at-Abu-Dhabi-endurance-race#

Bahrain claims gold in Team and Individual podiums at the FEI Endurance World Championship 2022

Inside.FEI.org

25 February 2023
Author: Zein Jardaneh

It was a great day all-around for Bahrain at the 18th FEI Endurance World Championship 2022 held in Butheeb (UAE) on Saturday, February 25 2023, as it claimed the top prize in both the individual and team podiums.

HH Sheikh Nasser Bin Hamad Al Khalifa, with the horse Darco La Majorie, added senior world champion – individual and team - to his already successful equestrian record of achievements, only months after he claimed gold at the FEI Endurance World Championship for Young Horses in Vic (ESP) in October. Khalifa, who shouted “We’re number one!” upon learning of his win, becomes a Senior World Champion for the first time in his storied career; he has participated in 19 Championships since 2004 and has successfully qualified in 14 of them. He won his first gold at the FEI Endurance World Championship for Young Horses in Bablona (HUN) in August 2012.

The Organising Committee and the Championship’s host, the United Arab Emirates Equestrian and Racing Federation, pulled out all the stops to set the stage for an outstanding championship in record time, with the well-being of horses and riders at the heart of all their endeavours. The 160 km track, which was run over six loops, is set against a stunning backdrop, and was prepared to the highest standards with world-class permanent infrastructures and facilities at the Butheeb International Endurance Village. Proper hydration and temperature control were optimised with multiple water points throughout the ride for the competitors to rehydrate.

All eyes were on the previous reigning champion, Salem Hamad Saeed Malhoof Al Kitbi from host nation UAE, with the horse Haleh, who came in second at Butheeb but had won gold at the last iteration of the FEI Endurance World Championship, held in Pisa (ITA) in 2021. “Haleh is a good horse, today was a very hard race (…). We are happy with the results,” Al Kitbi said.

In third place was Jaume Punti Dachs of Spain, with the horse Echo Falls, making this his fifth medal in Endurance World Championships. He is tied with Becky Hart (USA) and HH Mohammed Bin Rashid Al Maktoum (UAE) for the athletes with the most medals in Endurance World Championships.

Reflecting the overall diversity of this year’s championship, the top ten athletes at the individual podium represented eight separate countries: Bahrain (two spots), UAE, Spain (two spots), Australia, Portugal, Lithuania, Oman and Kuwait. Taking the start were 117 combinations, with 36 nations represented, 23 teams, and 13 nations with individual riders, and a remarkably gender balanced field of participants with 60 female and 57 male athletes competing in Butheeb.

For the first time since the FEI Endurance World Championship was held in 1986, Team Bahrain captured gold, ending Team Spain’s reign as champions, following three successive titles since the World Championship in Caen (FRA) in 2014. Team France, which came in second, is moving up the ranks after being bronze medallists at the World Championship in Pisa (ITA) in 2021. Their 13th team medal, Team France holds the record for the most team medals in the history of the championship. With a total of 24 medals claimed at FEI Endurance World Championships, France is also the nation with the most medals overall.

With favoured teams UAE and Spain having horses and riders eliminated throughout the day, most notably Fares Ahmad Saeed Daafoos Amer Al Mansoori and Saeed Salem Atiq Khamis Al Muhairi from the UAE, who were disqualified from the top individual podium spots due to their horses failing the maximum heart rate parameter exam, Portugal ultimately captured Team bronze.

The last double gold at an FEI Endurance World Championship – for both team and individual podiums – was claimed by Spain and third-place winner Jaume Punti Dachs of Spain in Samorin (SVK) in 2016.

The full roster of countries that participated in the 18th FEI Endurance World Championship is: Algeria, Argentina, Australia, Austria, Bahrain, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Chile, China, Croatia, Ecuador, Estonia, France, Germany, Great Britain, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Jordan, Kuwait, Lithuania, Netherlands, Norway, Oman, Poland, Portugal, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Slovakia, Spain, Switzerland, Thailand, United Arab Emirates, United States of America, and Uruguay.

Full results here

Libya to host international equestrian race for endurance

LibyaObserver.ly

February 25 2023

The Libyan Equestrian Federation is preparing to host an International Endurance race that qualifies for the 2023 World Cup in France.

The race that will take place on February 28, 2023 and will be supervised and monitored by the International Equestrian Federation with the participation of international referees and veterinarians, according to the Olympic Committee.

This race will be with a distance of 100 km and 120 km on the race track in the "Fum Malagha" area in the city of Tarhuna, and is intended for riders from the age of 14 to 21 years, and for horses 8 and above, in accordance with the laws and regulations in force in the International Federation for World Cup candidacy competitions.

This race is the first among four international races that will be held in Libya, according to the programs prepared by the Libyan Equestrian Federation.

Friday, February 24, 2023

Royal Cavalry to participate in the Endurance World event

TimesOfOman.com

Wednesday 22/February/2023 by ONA

Muscat: The Royal Cavalry at the Royal Court Affairs (RCA) will participate in the Endurance World Championship scheduled to be held at Bu Theeb village in Abu Dhabi on 25 February 2023.

As many as 143 male and female jockeys representing 37 countries will take part in the championship.

The Royal Cavalry’s team includes the following jockeys; Mahmoud Al Fouri, Hisham Al Farsi, Ahmed Al Hamdani, Saleh Al Balushi and Adil Al Balushi.

The Royal Cavalry achieved the third place and bronze medal in the Endurance World Championship held in the United Kingdom in 2012.

Saturday, February 18, 2023

Oman Equestrian Federation to organise endurance competition in Dhofar

TimesOfOman.com - Full Article

Friday 17/February/2023
By: Times News Service

Muscat: With the participation of 20 horses from various wilayats in Dhofar Governorate, a qualifying endurance competition will be held on Saturday, February 18, 2023 on the shore of Khor Al Dahariz.

"Tomorrow, the Oman Equestrian Federation, in cooperation with the Dhofar Equestrian Committee, will organise a qualifying endurance competition for a distance of 40 km on the shore of Khor Al Dahariz, with the participation of 20 horses from the wilayats of Dhofar Governorate, " Oman News Agency (ONA) said...

Read more here:
https://timesofoman.com/article/127079-oman-equestrian-federation-to-organise-endurance-competition-in-dhofar

Friday, February 17, 2023

Butheeb Ready to Welcome Endurance's Biggest Names

FEI.org - Full Article

15 February 2023

We take a closer look at the Abu Dhabi venue...

All eyes in the Endurance world are on the Butheeb International Endurance Village (BIEV) in the United Arab Emirates. We are now just days away from the 2022 FEI Endurance World Championship, with the winner crowned on February 25.

The world-renowned location is a mere hour outside Abu Dhabi, the capital of the United Arab Emirates. There are 129 horse and rider combinations representing 37 nations entered in the biennial event.

BIEV opened in 2004, and since then, it has hosted over 140 FEI Endurance events and 150 national Endurance events. The venue also introduces many young riders to the sport and serves as a training facility. Horse welfare is central to every event and training session at BIEV, with both the track and the facility reflecting this core value...

Read more here:
https://www.fei.org/stories/sport/endurance/butheeb-ready-welcome-endurances-biggest-names

Saudi Arabia: AlUla welcomes 200 of world’s best endurance riders

GDNOnline.com - Full Article

KSA Business Thu, 16 Feb 202

The Royal Commission for AlUla (RCU), in partnership with the Saudi Arabian Equestrian Federation (SAEF) and Fédération Equestre Internationale (FEI) is set to welcome 200 of the world’s best endurance riders for the fourth edition of Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques Endurance Cup 2023.

The prestigious 120km endurance race is set to take place around the ancient desert city on March 4.

The route for the 2023 edition, one of the marquee sporting events on the AlUla calendar, will showcase the stunning landscapes, natural beauty and ancient history of the destination.

Endurance riders from over 40 countries have signed up to participate, highlighting the truly global nature of the event, said ths statement from RCU.

2022 race winner Federico Ferber of Uruguay will return to defend his crown, while compatriot Andres Rivero will hope to go one better after finishing runner-up last year.

Frenchwoman Margot Chazel, who finished third, will be leading a strong representation of female riders alongside compatriot Camille Coulomb in a field which has attracted the world’s best, it stated...

Read more here:
https://www.gdnonline.com/Details/1184775

Thursday, February 16, 2023

Bahrain: King Hamad Endurance Cup prize money increased

GDNOnline.com - Full Article

Thu, 16 Feb 2023

His Majesty King Hamad’s representative for humanitarian work and youth affairs and Bahrain Royal Equestrian and Endurance Federation (Breef) honorary president Shaikh Nasser bin Hamad Al Khalifa has directed to raise the value of the prizes of the King Hamad Endurance Cup to BD130, 000.

The event will be organised by Breef at Bahrain International Endurance Village.

Shaikh Nasser thanked His Majesty for his support to the youth and sport sector and also emphasised the backing given to endurance sport which has led to its development in the kingdom.

Shaikh Nasser affirmed that increasing the value of the prizes will serve as an incentive for the participants to strive for distinguished achievements.

BD69,600 will be allocated for the local private stables 120km race...

Read more here:
https://www.gdnonline.com/Details/1184721

Wednesday, February 15, 2023

Four Decades of Endurance Champions

FEI.org - Full Article

15 February 2023

The first seven winners were female!

The FEI Endurance World Championships 2022 returns to the Arabian Peninsular for the first time in almost 20 years later this month when Butheeb in Abu Dhabi plays host.

Endurance became an FEI discipline in 1982, with the FEI Endurance World Championships organised every other year on even years since the first was held at the Italian venue of Pratoni del Vivaro in 1986. In the years since, we've seen winners from eight nations spanning four continents.

Back in 1986, Great Britain were the first-ever Team champions, edging out the US and France. The first Individual winner was US pair Cassandra Schuler & Skikos Omar.

Brilliant Becky

The Americans would dominate the first decade of the competition, with Becky Hart winning the next three titles in a row. The first seven champions were female!...

Read more here:
https://www.fei.org/stories/sport/endurance/four-decades-endurance-champions

Friday, February 10, 2023

Qatar: QERC rounds off preparations for HH The Amir’s Sword Endurance Race

ThePenisulaQatar.com - Full Article

Published: 09 Feb 2023

Doha: Qatar Endurance Racing Club (QERC) rounded off the preparations for HH The Amir Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani’s Sword Endurance Race, due to be held at the Marathon village in Sealine, on Saturday.

Featuring 55 male and female jockeys from Qatar, Kuwait, Oman, and the UAE astride well-trained horses, the race stretches over 119km, split into four stages - the first for 39km, the second for 35km, the third for 25km, and the fourth for 20km...

Read more here:
https://thepeninsulaqatar.com/article/09/02/2023/qerc-rounds-off-preparations-for-hh-the-amirs-sword-endurance-race

Tuesday, February 07, 2023

WEC: Endurance, the gender and age friendly horse sport

Christophe Tanière/FEI photo

Horsetalk.co.nz - Full Article

February 7, 2023
Horsetalk.co.nz

There is also a 55-year age spread separating the youngest and eldest riders. The youngest is first-time World Championship competitor 18-year-old Constanza Pacheco Diaz from Argentina. At the other end of the spectrum is Canada’s Robert Gielen, 73, who will be participating in his fourth World Championship.

Some 129 combinations representing 37 nations have confirmed their entries for the 2022 championship, which was to have taken place last October in Verona, Italy. The FEI cancelled the event following concerns “including but not limited to track readiness, athlete safety, and the lack of detailed planning schedules” in the lead-up to the event...

Read more here:
https://www.horsetalk.co.nz/2023/02/07/endurance-gender-age-friendly-horse-sport/

Monday, February 06, 2023

Australia: TQ 2023 up and running

NoosaToday.com.au - Full Article

06/02/202

One hundred and sixty kilometres in one day is the enormous challenge that will face some of Australia’s best endurance horses and riders at Imbil this year.

Preparations and planning for the 57th Tom Quilty Gold Cup National Championship to be held this year at the Stirling’s Crossing Equestrian Complex has got off to a flying start with a highly-successful committee meeting 160 days ahead of the 160km event to be held June 23-25.

The Quilty, as it is known among horse enthusiasts, is an annual event and was first run in 1966 when the legend himself, RM Williams, wrote to his friend, Tom Quilty, looking for support to run the race...

Read more here:
https://noosatoday.com.au/news/06-02-2023/tq-2023-up-and-running/

Thursday, February 02, 2023

129 Athletes representing 37 Nations gear up for the ultimate prize in Endurance Riding

FEI.org

31 January 2023
Author: FEI Communications

With less than a month to go before the world’s best equine and human athletes gather in Butheeb (UAE) for the FEI Endurance World Championship 2022, the line-up has been confirmed with 129 combinations representing 37 nations ready to challenge for the 2022 individual and team world titles on Saturday 25 February 2023.

The 18th edition of the FEI Endurance World Championship, first held in 1986, boasts a remarkably gender balanced field of participants, with 63 female and 66 male athletes entered, and an equally impressive diversity in age range of the participants with 55 years separating youngest and first time World Championship competitor, 18-year-old Constanza Pacheco Diaz (ARG) from Canada’s 73-year old Robert Gielen, who will be taking part in his fourth World Championship!

With numbers reminiscent of pre-covid times, the Championship will see 24 teams compete for the team title, which the Spanish have held firmly within their grip since the World Championship in Caen (FRA) in 2014.

For Spain, a fourth consecutive title would set a new record in the sport, but they will face plenty of opposition from other teams vying the top spot, such as Brazil and France – silver and bronze medallists at the World Championship in Pisa (ITA) in 2021 - as well as other former medallists including the Netherlands, Switzerland, Bahrain, Qatar and host nation UAE, the only other country to boast three consecutive world titles, which they achieved from 2008 to 2012.

From an individual front, all eyes will also be on Spanish and Emirati riders, as they have dominated the field since 2006. Among them, there is Salem Hamad Saeed Al Kitbi (UAE), with his horse Haleh, who will be defending his World title here in Butheeb; Spain’s power couple Maria Alvarez Ponton and Jaume Punti Dachs who have three individual World titles between them; and, their compatriot Angel Soy Coll, who is current European Champion.

The Venue

A successful test event held in December 2022, following the allocation to Butheeb at the FEI General Assembly in November of that same year confirmed that all the systems and footing were on track for a successful World Championship in February.

With an open-house invitation to National Federations (NFs) and teams to experience first-hand the facilities on offer at the Butheeb International Endurance Village (BIEV), the Organising Committee provided a comprehensive overview of what they could expect at the upcoming Championship with the world-class permanent infrastructure featuring state-of-the-art veterinary facilities.

Alongside the 160 km track which will be run over 6 loops and has been prepared to the highest standard, proper hydration and temperature control have also been optimised with multiple water points throughout the ride for the competitors to rehydrate and cool off, serviced by many of the volunteers and staff that have dedicated their time and expertise to supporting the event.

In addition, the Organising Committee will also be implementing a number of actionable sustainable initiatives in a bid to set a new benchmark for future Endurance events and showcase UAE’s commitment to innovation in sustainable ecology in line with their pledge for carbon neutrality by 2050.

“We are excited to see so many athletes and nations confirmed for this important Championship”, said FEI President Ingmar De Vos.

“Sustainable thinking is absolutely key to event planning today, and I am delighted the World Championship in Butheeb has set its sights on becoming a point of reference for environmental sustainability at Endurance rides in the future.

“Thanks to the concerted efforts of the Organising Committee in Butheeb and the UAE Equestrian National Federation, we will have a fantastic backdrop for our sport with all the necessary infrastructures and requirements to ensure our athletes and our horses can perform at their very best, with safety and welfare a priority throughout.”

==========================================

The full roster of countries participating in the upcoming FEI Endurance World Championship are: Algeria, Argentina, Australia, Austria, Bahrain, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Chile, China, Costa Rica, Croatia, Ecuador, Estonia, France, Germany, Great Britain, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Jordan, Kuwait, Lithuania, Netherlands, Norway, Oman, Poland, Portugal, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Slovakia, Spain, Switzerland, Thailand, United Arab Emirates, United States of America, and Uruguay.

For the full Master List with the FEI Endurance World Championship 2022 definite entries, click here.

Wednesday, February 01, 2023

Canada’s Robert Gielen to Ride in 4th World Championship

Salem Hamad Saeed Al Kitbi (UAE), with his horse Haleh in Pisa during the Longines FEI Endurance World Championship in May 2021. (Christophe Tanière/FEI)

HorseSport.com - Full Article

At 73 years old ‒ the oldest competitor in the event ‒ Gielen will ride the 160km endurance track aboard More Bang For Your Buck.

By: FEI Communications | January 31, 2023

With less than a month to go before the world’s best equine and human athletes gather in Butheeb (UAE) for the FEI Endurance World Championship 2022, the line-up has been confirmed with 129 combinations representing 37 nations ready to challenge for the 2022 individual and team world titles on Saturday 25 February 2023.

The 18th edition of the FEI Endurance World Championship, first held in 1986, boasts a remarkably gender balanced field of participants, with 63 female and 66 male athletes entered, and an equally impressive diversity in age range of the participants with 55 years separating youngest and first-time World Championship competitor 18-year-old Constanza Pacheco Diaz (ARG) from Canada’s 73-year old Robert Gielen, who will be taking part in his fourth World Championship!...

Read more here:
https://horsesport.com/horse-news/canadas-robert-gielen-to-ride-in-4th-world-championship/

FEI Goes Quiet on Sanctions Against Countries with a Doping Problem

HorseSport.com - Full Article After a huge spike in positives in Saudi Arabia, last year the FEI told HorseSport.com it would discuss a co...